AWD QUESTIONS

"SlickMcRick" (slickmcrick) 01/19/2015 at 22:02 • Filed to: None

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I know it that it has the benefits in traction during inclement weather conditions (tons of recent articles about drive wheels vs proper tires have flooded this site) but what are the other benefits?

Also my main question would be what are the drawbacks? Any particular maintenance issues I need to worry about. The vehicle in question is a Ford Flex w/ AWD. My old man wants me to get AWD but I think FWD would do just fine for me.

Zipppy, Mazdurp builder, Probeski owner and former ricerboy > SlickMcRick 01/19/2015 at 22:07

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AWD might understeer in some cases, more fuel consumption as well in cases.

Brian Silvestro > SlickMcRick 01/19/2015 at 22:08

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Pros:

Better acceleration

will pull you out of corners faster

grip

Cons:

makes car heavy

understeer

impedes steering feel

gas milage

bob and john > SlickMcRick 01/19/2015 at 22:09

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traction is the only benifit. you have all 4 wheels spinning to try and get your fat-ass out of a snowbank (i live in a canada) snow tires or a not, a 2WD car in the snow is going to be shitty to a AWD car with snows.

draw backs:
weight. AWD systems usually add about 100lbs or so. sometimes more
fuel econ: you have another 2 diffs and some more drive shafts to spin.

as far as maintenance goes: a modern AWD system isnt any worse to maintain then a non AWD car. sure, there is an extra 2 diffs and a couple of extra driveshafts, but you have to be doing some stupid crap to have to damage it. in day-to-day use, getting to and from the office, absolutely no difference what-so-ever.



EDIT: but, you DO have to run the same sized wheels (so no 16" fronts, 17" rears). any difference in circumference with be taken up by the diff and thats just a quick way to burn it out.

GeorgeyBoy > SlickMcRick 01/19/2015 at 22:11

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It really depends on the system.

Most of the time they're just making your car heavier, and have more things that can break.

Arch Duke Maxyenko, Shit Talk Extraordinaire > SlickMcRick 01/19/2015 at 22:12

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You want the AWD version so that you can get 365 hp

ranwhenparked > SlickMcRick 01/19/2015 at 22:13

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It adds more road hugging weight and helps you go through gas faster so it doesn't spoil in the tank. Those can be seen as advantages.

CB > SlickMcRick 01/19/2015 at 22:15

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It looks like it would be a 2 MPG difference in fuel economy for a 2013 Flex in FWD vs Ecoboost AWD models. I have nothing else to add that hasn't been said.

SlickMcRick > Arch Duke Maxyenko, Shit Talk Extraordinaire 01/19/2015 at 22:15

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If I come across one in my budget when it's time to purchase I will definitely get Ecoboost. But if not I'll still take the standard engine. I'll make due.

SlickMcRick > bob and john 01/19/2015 at 22:16

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Is also true that you must replace all 4 tires at the same time? Let's say a have 50% tread on all 4 corners but I have to replace one because of a really bad leak. Will I have to replace the other 3 as well?

SlickMcRick > Brian Silvestro 01/19/2015 at 22:19

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I've driven through every winter with All Seasons and FWD to this point and just trying to weight the benefits to see if I may need it. I'm thinking AWD would definitely beneficial in inclement whether due to the heft of the vehicle in question. All my other vehicles were less than 3000.

HammerheadFistpunch > SlickMcRick 01/19/2015 at 22:20

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You asked too early. I am writing an article right now that puts to bed the "AWD is for chumps" shit that's being flying left and right around here. granted, its not for everyone but these arguments....guh. I can give you my 2 cents on it and you can take that for what its worth. I'm leaving out the controversial parts until I can post...because otherwise its just conjecture.

PROS -

better acceleration (assuming that your acceleration is limited by traction)

reduced or eliminate torque steer.

better power balance, you can get on the power earlier without chassis distributions with power distributed by 2x the wheels.

a given wheel will slip less often in inclimate weather, meaning less chassis disrupting stability control intervention and more seamless power delivery. less need to engage the safety nets

more even tire wear - more uniform wear patterns front/rear

often better weight balance (on fwd based cars)

CONS -

Heavier but marginally so on a vehicle like this

worse weight balance and packaging issues in some cars (typically rwd based cars)

some systems are poor reproductions of actual AWD in that they provide limited torque transfer, have too much system lag and don't work above certain speeds...limiting their usefulness

they are generally a mileage detriment to the tune of about 7-10%

non-performance AWD system tend to exacerbate understeer at the limit

There are more but to honest I will stop there and let you think about it. The truth is that its a matter of weather, use and style. I prefer AWD where i live because I drive in snow alot (among other things) and its been proven to me that the benefits outweigh the demerits....for me. However you can get by without it just fine if you make concessions elsewhere.

Brian Silvestro > SlickMcRick 01/19/2015 at 22:20

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Well I have a 2700lb car with winters on it and it's a monster for the most part.

SlickMcRick > Zipppy, Mazdurp builder, Probeski owner and former ricerboy 01/19/2015 at 22:20

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Well it doesn't understeer anymore than FWD does it?

bob and john > SlickMcRick 01/19/2015 at 22:21

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you would have to get the new tire buffed down to match the wear of the other tires. (or plug the old tire)

but when replacing tires (or swapping between summer and winters) all 4 tires should match.

PowderHound > SlickMcRick 01/19/2015 at 22:21

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yes or get them shaved down

Zipppy, Mazdurp builder, Probeski owner and former ricerboy > SlickMcRick 01/19/2015 at 22:23

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it all depends on the vehicle imo, My father has an AWD BMW, only complaint is that bumps are rougher up front due to the added transaxle.

SlickMcRick > bob and john 01/19/2015 at 22:26

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Yeaaaaa that's a big con right there. Was afraid you'd say that. Thanks though for that helpful bit of info. The extra traction is nice but I may avoid AWD unless I get an Ecoboost.

Biased Plies > SlickMcRick 01/19/2015 at 22:28

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That's subjective and depends on how the system distributes power. If the system is rear-biased in its torque distribution, probably not. If it's a fwd-biased system it may understeer more when pushed, if only due to the increased weight. Again, it varies by system and tuning.

SlickMcRick > Brian Silvestro 01/19/2015 at 22:29

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Get's to a point that if it's enough snow on the ground I'm not going out regardless of what wheel drive I have. I've never been stuck. My uncle had to get roadside assistance with his 2WD Suburban while my 1990 Escort GT just trucked right along.

Brian Silvestro > SlickMcRick 01/19/2015 at 22:30

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You should just go for RWD, screw it!

bob and john > SlickMcRick 01/19/2015 at 22:32

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it really isnt THAT much of an extra expense.

at least not when you consider the price of replacing a diff or something.

I in the 3 years we;'ve had my moms IS250, we didnt get any flats. so it doesnt really matter to use about that. (then again, we live in canada)

if you live in a snowy climate, i WOULD recommend AWD on something that big. front wheels alone might not have the traction to pull 4000+lbs in the snow. if not, then go FWD.

SlickMcRick > HammerheadFistpunch 01/19/2015 at 22:35

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Thank you foe this very informative answer. I can't wait to read your post. Based on your response here I expect a well informed opinion. Glad to see I wasn't the only getting annoyed by those snow tire arguments. I live in DC currently but considering I may move away from the city AWD may definitely help because of winding lightly plowed roads. How's the tire maintenance issue? Not a big fan of have to either shave down a tire or replace all if one goes bad. That's my biggest drawback.

SlickMcRick > ranwhenparked 01/19/2015 at 22:36

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How considerate of it to make sure I put all that gas too good use. It's ok if I still have my 95 Saturn that's great on gas. It'd offset.

SlickMcRick > Brian Silvestro 01/19/2015 at 22:39

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Unfortunately the Flex doesn't come in that option. Besides if I need a RWD fix I'll just "exercise" my dad's C5.

Brian Silvestro > SlickMcRick 01/19/2015 at 22:39

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Or just get a C5 yourself!

Why so set on the Flex?

HammerheadFistpunch > SlickMcRick 01/19/2015 at 22:39

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I've owned 4wd or full time 4wd or AWD vehicles for 15 years and its never really been an issue (the tire thing) it also depends very much on the system. if the system has a limited slip clutch, then its generally not a good idea to go as far as a new tire on versus ready to replace but how often does that happen, if the bad tire IS ready to replace then you need new tires anyway. true story, my land cruiser is full time 4wd (all 4 wheels in permanent drive) with an LSD in the middle and i have been poor at rotating in my spare, so now 2 of my tires are a good 1/8th inch fresher than my other 2. aint no thang, my center diff temps aren't any higher and my open front and rear diff temps aren't any higher. As for the actual hardware? nothing to it, just an extra few quarts of gear oil every few years.

SlickMcRick > bob and john 01/19/2015 at 22:43

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Well I may eventually move out DC area so it may be great to consider. In the used market the price gap isn't that bad at all. For some reason the Flex doesn't sell well so it depreciates quite nicely into my budget. And the weight of the vehicle is definitely something I'm taking into great consideration.

SlickMcRick > Brian Silvestro 01/19/2015 at 22:45

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I've always had a thing for it and when my younger bro got a 2013 Taurus it reminded me how much I wanted it. I've liked larger vehicles and used to drive a suburban. I also like utilitarian vehicles. I was looking at Honda Elements, Ford Flexes and Mazda 5s. The C5 is my dad's dream car. I want a Viper ;-)

Brian Silvestro > SlickMcRick 01/19/2015 at 22:46

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Seems legit. If I were to get a Flex I'd get the Ford GT-engined one. Just because I can say that to people about it

SlickMcRick > HammerheadFistpunch 01/19/2015 at 22:48

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I'm loving all these informative responses. So much better than scanning through those rant inducing posts scavenging for insight. Why must all the tires be so close in tread wear? What happens if one is off?

Hooneriphic > SlickMcRick 01/19/2015 at 22:49

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My brother in law is making nearly 500 hp with his flex. It's a ridiculous family hauler if ever I've seen one.

As for the tire issues... As with any car, you should be rotating the tires throughout their life. Do so and you'll have no stagger issues.

SlickMcRick > Brian Silvestro 01/19/2015 at 22:50

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Hahaha. Guess I'll have to bump it up to 600hp as well while I'm at it. If I can find one in my budget towards the end of the year in a 2013+ body I'll definitely shoot for it. I'll be an OPPO GAWD!!!! Would be posting about it all the time lol.

SlickMcRick > Hooneriphic 01/19/2015 at 22:51

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Thanks. Definitely can't be lazy on the rotation then. What model year is his Flex?

Brian Silvestro > SlickMcRick 01/19/2015 at 22:52

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YES. At least we know it can be done. Good luck with your future purchase!

sm70- why not Duesenberg? > SlickMcRick 01/19/2015 at 22:57

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WARNING: We have a Flex FWD w/ snow tires. With the Blizzaks on, it goes okay Without them, it will. not. move. My dad has said repeatedly that he regrets not getting the AWD model more than he regrets not getting the Ecoboost. His next car will very likely be AWD.

And for people who bitch about weight an fuel economy, it's a massive family crossover, not a Miata. Who cares.

SlickMcRick > sm70- why not Duesenberg? 01/19/2015 at 23:01

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AND YOU SIR ARE A WINNER!!!! Finally a winter review on the FWD Flex. It's settled. I'm getting AWD and if an Ecoboost slips into my hands that's even better. You're a superhero. I was concerned that All that weight being dragged around in that snow wouldn't work out. You have confirmed any suspicion that I had.

sm70- why not Duesenberg? > SlickMcRick 01/19/2015 at 23:02

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Before you spend your money, I will say: We have only gotten stuck once with the snow tires. But AWD with snow tires will be even better.

HammerheadFistpunch > SlickMcRick 01/19/2015 at 23:04

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its a function of speed difference, a 1% difference in tire size is a 1% difference in wheel speed which means that the differential thinks you are contently going around a corner. with an open diff it doesn't matter much, with an LSD you can overheat the LSD and do damage.

SlickMcRick > sm70- why not Duesenberg? 01/19/2015 at 23:09

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Well both FWD and AWD models are rather close in price range in the used market. I'm very specific on two options that I want. The Vista roof and 6 passenger configuration. Now I think I'll add AWD to that list. When I begin my search I'm going anywhere in the country to get what I want. Would be nice to get something out West and make that drive back. Long distance driving doesn't bother me much.

Hooneriphic > SlickMcRick 01/19/2015 at 23:09

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I'm not 100% sure what model year it is. It's literally their family weekend wagon. He won't do anything else to it but regularly talks about guys making 600 hp with the ecoboost flex.

Best part about it is the fact that he hasn't touched a single appearance item on the car. It looks like a stock flex and is pretty quiet to boot.

sm70- why not Duesenberg? > SlickMcRick 01/19/2015 at 23:15

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We have both those options, and they're great.

I will say this: Having both AWD and snow tires is best, but if you've gotta have just one, go for the tires. They won't get you moving as well as AWD,, but they will get you moving. However, unlike AWD, they also hep you stop and steer. If you want AWD, that's a good choice, but personally I'd still recommend getting snow tires as well.

Pvrkcr > SlickMcRick 01/19/2015 at 23:35

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there are a lot of factors that were already pointed out more than once so ill give an example instead. Right now i have two vehicles a Evo 8 with about 700 hp and a Nissan titan v8. I do much more maintenance on my Evo than my titan (rwd most of the time) because im in Colorado and i rally it. I've done a few rallies here and there and have done the pikes peak hill climb. In all those situations awd hasn't failed me once (as i said before i maintain it though). It is very helpful with our flash weather changes. There are times when it can be a pain (tires mostly), but the benefits out weight the downsides. Picking the right tires can make or break fwd so don't count it out.

If you find a Ecoboost snatch it quick. I nearly bought one instead of the Evo but was too late.